От HorNet
К All
Дата 19.01.2010 17:23:55
Рубрики Современность; Флот;

Будущее скандинавских ПЛ

Товарищи,


На основании знакомства с западной оборонной периодикой возникает вопрос - шведы что, решили пойти датским путем и не строить новых НаПЛ? Это после успехов "Готланда" в Сан-Диего?
И я не очень понял, отчего зарезали свой подводный флот датчане...


С уважением, HorNet
От Exeter
К HorNet (19.01.2010 17:23:55)
Дата 19.01.2010 21:07:05

Re: Будущее скандинавских...

Здравствуйте, уважаемый HorNet!

Датчане зарезали свой подводный флот дабы найти деньгу для "Абсалонов" и новых фрегатов.


>На основании знакомства с западной оборонной периодикой возникает вопрос - шведы что, решили пойти датским путем и не строить новых НаПЛ? Это после успехов "Готланда" в Сан-Диего?

Е:
Вполне себе шведы собираются строить новые ПЛ. По программе NGU проектируется новая ПЛ на основе наработок по проекту А26 и по покойному "Викингу". Просто у шведов бабла на НИОКР не хватает, и они хотят снова зарубежных партнеров под это дело развести. Интерес проявили норвеги (но пока деньги не хотят давать), сингапурцы (неопределенно) и поляки (а у этих и так денег нет).

Вот Вам из октябрьского "Jane's Navy International" актуально-насущная статейка на тему:





Nordic neighbours pursue divergent submarine tracks

With more than 200 years of subsurface operations between them, Norway and Sweden are modernising their submarine fleets and developing new platforms to meet a shift in operational focus, write Jon Rosamond and Richard Scott

The Royal Norwegian Navy (RNoN) this year celebrates the centenary of the establishment of its submarine arm and the commissioning of its first submarine, the German-built Kobben (later renamed A-1), in November 1909.
In those pioneering days, its nearest neighbour, the Royal Swedish Navy (RSwN), was already comparatively experienced in subsurface operations, having commissioned the indigenously built Holland-type boat, Hajen, in 1904.
Today, while the RNoN has one eye on the past, the other is focused on advancing plans for the progressive recapitalisation of its six-strong submarine force over the next 15-20 years. The RSwN, meanwhile, is modernising its five boats and is working to develop a successor platform under the Next Generation Submarine (Nästa Generation Ubåt/ NGU) programme, with a requirement for two boats to enter service in 2017-18.
The RSwN's 1st Submarine Flotilla based in Karlskrona consists of two Södermanland-class (A 17) submarines and three Gotland-class (A 19) boats; all fitted with endurance-enhancing air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems - a factor that has revolutionised the Swedish submariner's modus operandi. From its Cold War focus on littoral operations in the Baltic, the flotilla is now expanding its horizons to the Atlantic Ocean, Mediterranean and the Middle East. The emphasis is shifting from traditional anti-surface warfare 'ship-hunting' and mine-laying roles, towards intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) missions and special operations. Under the UN Standby Arrangements System and the NATO Partnership for Peace Planning and Review Process, one RSwN submarine is maintained at 90 days readiness.
Despite the uncertain economic climate, the government confirmed on 21 September 2009 that - as part of its public spending bill for 2010 - the NGU programme would continue in accordance with the plan originally approved in 2007.
In December of that year ministers gave the green light for the detailed engineering design phase, but stopped short of committing themselves to production. In a statement at the time, the government said it believed indigenous development of a future submarine "could prove more economical than procurement of a corresponding platform on the international market. Domestic development of the NGU would also ensure retention of the majority of Sweden's naval shipbuilding expertise, securing the country's ability to maintain the submarines and surface combat ships that are currently in service".
Despite the programme being judged a high national priority by the supreme commander of the Swedish Armed Forces and by the government, a spokesman for the Defence Materiel Administration (Försvarets materielverk/FMV) warned in January 2008 that a final decision on ordering the NGU into production would hinge on studies looking "into the future need of submarines and also a comparison of the costs between developing NGU and acquiring a submarine on the international market".
However, naval shipbuilder and systems specialist Kockums entered into a contract with the FMV for pre-design work on the NGU programme, with a detailed design contract anticipated in late 2008 or early 2009, followed by a construction order in 2010. (This work followed on from earlier feasibility studies carried out by the company into a so-called A 26 design, which was established after the pan-Nordic Viking submarine collaboration foundered in 2004.)
A Kockums spokesman told Jane's on 16 September 2009: "We are discussing the construction phase with our customer, the FMV. We hope to have a contract on this construction phase but for the moment this is not ready and discussions [are] ongoing."
Equipped with a Stirling AIP system inside a 63 m-long hull displacing some 1,830 tons (submerged), the NGU has been conceived as a modular, affordable design able to support international operations and placing heavy emphasis on ISR and special operations capabilities.
Main characteristics include very low signatures, long submerged endurance, extreme manoeuvrability, flexibility due to mission-adaptable payloads, a modular design (making it easier to modernise during its service life), and an open-architecture sensor and communications suite supporting network-centric warfare. A key feature is the flexible payload lock in the bow 'supertube': a 1.6 m-diameter facility alongside the four torpedo tubes that permits the deployment of divers and unmanned vehicles.
Norway and Poland have express an interest in the NGU project, the former in connection with embryonic plans to replace its six Ula-class submarines from about 2020. Singapore - which operates four ex-RSwN A 12 submarines and is about to acquire two A 17 boats from the same source -has also been courted.
Meanwhile, efforts are continuing to improve the capabilities and extend the lives of Sweden's five in-service boats. Kockums announced in June that it had secured a SEK25 million (USD3.2 million) contract from the FMV to supply four Stirling Mk 3 AIP engines for the Södermanland-class (A 17) and Gotland-class (A 19) submarines.
Built at Kockums' Malmo yard between 1992 and 1996, the three Gotland-class boats - HMS Gotland, HMS Uppland and HMS Halland - were designed with sufficient internal space to accommodate four Stirling V4-275R Mk 2 engines apiece. In the event, each boat was procured with just two of the auxiliary AIP units, which are designed to run on liquid oxygen and diesel in a helium environment.
A mid-life upgrade (MLU) for the Gotland class is imminent and will involve the replacement of the original Mk 2 Stirlings with Mk 3 engines, the integration of a more powerful combat management system (CMS) and active sonar suite, a new sail design including a diver's lock and flexible antennas, reduced signature, enhanced countermeasures capability, and improved catering facilities and living quarters.
Developed by Saab Systems in collaboration with the FMV, the new Stridsoch Eldledningssystem Ubåt (SESUB) 960B combat and fire-control system is based on modules from the Visby-class corvettes' 9LV Mk 3E CETRIS CMS. In the Gotland class it will replace the existing SESUB 940 system. Final development of the 960B HW and SW was finalised in the first quarter of 2009.
Littoral performance
The Reson-supplied SUBAC sonar suite will comprise active sonars for mine avoidance, anti-submarine warfare and bottom navigation and mapping, with a view to improve operational performance particularly in littoral waters.
However, budgetary restrictions mean that only two of the Gotland-class submarines - Uppland and Halland -will now undergo the MLU docking and, according to Reson, only one will gain the seabed navigation and mapping capability in the SUBAC sonar suite using the Reson SeaBat 7125 multibeam echo sounder. Design work for the MLU began in early 2009 and both boats will be back in service towards the end of 2014.
The unmodernised boat, Gotland, is expected to remain in the navy rather than be sold abroad. Any efforts to market Gotland overseas would have benefitted from its high-profile successes while participating in exercises with the US Navy off California between 2005 and 2007. Acting as a surrogate 'rogue state' threat, the Swedish boat was used to test anti-submarine warfare systems, operators and procedures in US surface ships, helicopters and nuclear-powered submarines. Gotland proved so quiet that it had to be fitted with a noise augmentation device during some exercises in order to make it easier to detect.
The Gotland class is a development of the A 17 submarine design, which was conceived in the late 1970s as a conventional non-AIP diesel-electric boat with X-type rudder/aft hydroplane. Four A 17 submarines were built by Kockums in Malmo and Karlskrona between 1983 and 1988 and these entered service between 1987 and 1990. The first two boats, ex-HMS Västergötland and ex-HMS Hälsingland, are to be transferred to Singapore, leaving the two later units, HMS Södermanland and HMS Östergötland, in RSwN service.
These two boats were retro-fitted with AIP in the shape of Mk 3 Stirling engines during MLUs carried out by Kockums between 2000 and 2005, a major undertaking that necessitated the insertion of a 12 m plug in the pressure hulls. Other work carried out at the same time included the installation of a pressurised diver's lock-out chamber at the foot of the sail (to facilitate special forces operations), a new climate control system (to allow operations in waters warmer than the Baltic Sea), and the addition of a thermal imaging camera and an improved image intensifier to the Thales Optronics CK 038 periscope.
Södermanland, which went into drydock in 2008 to receive its new CMS and undergo some preventative maintenance, will recommission in early 2010. Östergötland will be subject to the same activities starting in mid-2010 with delivery back to the navy in 2011. This programme will see the integration of the SESUB 960A CMS, replacing the legacy SESUB 900A (Ericsson IPS-17) system. Development of the 960A was completed in 2008. However, plans to equip the A 17 boats with the SESUB sonar suite have been postponed. According to Saab, the SESUB 960A/B will form the basis for the CMS in the future NGU platform.
Covert surveillance
Norway's rationale for maintaining a submarine capability is straightforward - according to the Forsvarsdepartementet (Ministry of Defence), the submarine force represents "a unique strategic resource" through its ability to execute a range of missions while remaining undetected. In particular, it is the capacity to perform covert surveillance and information gathering that has assumed primacy in the current era.
Indeed, there has been a transformation over the past two decades in the pattern of operations. The traditional operating ground for RNoN submarines during the Cold War was the Barents Sea, with the force very much honed for anti-surface ship operations against a Soviet invasion fleet in defence of Norway and NATO.
However, in the post-Cold War world, a slimmed-down Norwegian submarine force has found itself reoriented for coalition maritime operations in distant theatres (for example, NATO's Operation 'Active Endeavour' in the Mediterranean).
With the retirement and subsequent transfer to Poland of the Kobben class in 2002-04, the RNoN's front-line submarine capability is now delivered by the six Ula-class diesel-electric submarines of the 1st Submarine Squadron based at Haakonsvern, Bergen. Commissioned between 1989 and 1992, Ula, Utsira, Utstein, Utvaer, Uthaug, and Uredd were built at the Thyssen Nordseewerke yard in Emden, Germany, to the Type 210 design.
In their existing configuration, the 1,150 ton submerged displacement Ula-class boats are fitted with the Kongsberg Defence Systems MSI-90U Mk 2 command-and -weapon control system, an Atlas Elektronik DBQS-21DN cylindrical sonar, Sperry Micro PUFFS passive ranging sonar and Zeiss periscopes. Each submarine is armed with an outload of up to 14 Atlas Elektronik DM2A3 wire-guided heavyweight torpedoes.
Following the 2000 decision to reduce the size of Norway's submarine force and the subsequent pull-out from the Viking programme, the Forsvarsdepartementet, the RNoN and what was the Naval Materiel Command - now subsumed into the Norwegian Defence Logistics Organisation (NDLO) - began to scope plans for a phased modernisation programme for the Ula class in order to maintain their operational effectiveness through to a planned out-of-service date around 2020.
In the near term this focused on a programme of 'tropicalisation' modifications (introducing seawater heat exchangers, new air conditioning and chilled-water plants) to enable three boats to undertake operations in the Mediterranean during the warm summer months as well as the introduction of the Sagem SIGMA 40XP dual inertial navigation system. Follow-on efforts are looking at an incremental programme of combat system upgrades addressing sonar inboard processing, command and weapon control, and enhanced connectivity.
Under Project 6344, Kongsberg, working with QinetiQ, is currently undertaking the inboard replacement of passive sonar system (PSS) processing hardware while retaining the existing cylindrical (DBQS-21DN), passive ranging (MicroPUFFS) and intercept arrays. The project also introduces a new combat system integration infrastructure (CSI2) in the form of a dual-redundant Fast Ethernet, providing a new information backbone for future combat system upgrades.
Three new multifunction consoles (MFCs) have been introduced as part of the PSS upgrade. These MFCs can be split into an upper dual display console and a lower multifunction unit (MFU) with 19-inch/6U racks hosting the combat system server, network serial interface and CSI2 network switch/router.
A separate processing cabinet hosts all PSS hardware. This comprises a processing cluster based on Kontron CP6012 6U Core 2 Duo Processor 2.16 CPU blades, disk storage, network switches and timing control.
Three new beam-forming algorithms are being introduced as part of the PSS upgrade; QinetiQ is supplying a conventional beam-former, while Kongsberg is providing an adaptive beam-former and the MUSIC subspace algorithm. The latter provides improved target separation lines, making it very useful for crossing target situations.
Ula PSS on schedule
According to Kongsberg, the Ula class PSS is currently running to schedule, with the Critical Design Review completed in March 2009. The System Acceptance Test for the first submarine is scheduled to be completed by the end of October 2010.
Under a separate contract, Kongsberg (through its Kongsberg Maritime business) is delivering new active navigation and mine-avoidance sonars and multibeam echo sounder systems for the Ula boats. Processing hardware for these two systems is being installed in spare 6U shelf space in the MFUs.
Project 6345, the second phase of the Ula combat systems modernisation, is planned to upgrade the combat management system to a more open commercial off-the-shelf (COTS)-based architecture. It will also see the introduction of a new electronic support measures system and an updated navigation suite. It is understood that work is under way in the NDLO to finalise subsystem requirements, with industry expecting an invitation to tender later in 2010 or early in 2011.
Measures have already been taken to improve connectivity. ITT Defense Electronics and Services (formerly EDO) has latterly implemented a communication and datalink upgrade for the Ula class that integrates satellite communications and Link 11 into the submarine combat system. In addition, the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment (Forsvarets forskningsinstitutt/FFI) has successfully performed a concept development and experimentation activity to demonstrate the addition of NATO SECRET SATCOM and NORCCIS 2 functionality over an Iridium link (realising NATO MIL UHF SATCOM performance at a fraction of the cost).
Another possible line of development for the Ula class is the incorporation of the new IDAS submarine fibre-optically guided self-defence missile. Kongsberg has contributed to the development of the system (taking responsibility for command-and-control integration aspects) as part of a consortium with Diehl BGT Defence and HDW/ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems.
Concept studies began in the Forsvarsdepartementet in 2007 to investigate options to maintain the RNoN's submarine capability in the post-2020 period under the auspices of Project 6346 Ny Ubåt (New Submarine). The RNoN, NDLO and FFI are also providing input into these studies.
According to the Forsvarsdepartementet, the concept exploration work now under way is examining the high-level requirement for a future submarine capability, asking whether such a capability is still relevant and identifying possible solutions to meet the capability requirement. In essence, there are three potential outcomes: axe the submarine force with the retirement of the Ula class; further upgrade or replace the Ula class; or deliver the capability currently provided by submarines through other means.
The study is planned to complete in 2010, at which time the government is expected to decide on which course to follow. Assuming it finds in favour of retaining a submarine capability over the longer term, a definition study will be launched to draw up the programme in more detail ahead of submission for approval by the Storting (Norway's parliament) in the 2011-12 timeframe.
There have already been suggestions that Norway could look afresh at a collaboration with Sweden on the latter's A 26 programme. However, as was found during the Viking project definition phase, the requirements of the RNoN are likely to be somewhat different to those of the RSwN, with the former looking at an operating profile calling for greater range, endurance and depth rating.
DEATH OF A VIKING
Established in 1994 by Denmark, Norway and Sweden, the pan-Nordic Project Viking submarine programme was originally envisaged as a 12-boat programme, with each partner slated to take four boats. It aimed to develop a 'commonalised' and affordable new-generation submarine design to meet the submarine replacement requirements of the Danish, Norwegian and Swedish navies. A tri-nation prime contractor-designate, known as the Viking Submarine Corporation (VSC) was established by Kockums, Kongsberg Defence and Aerospace and the Odense Steel Shipyard (part of the AP Møller Group).
However, collaborative programmes are rarely without problems. In the case of Viking, its long gestation coincided with significant defence budget cuts in all three nations and major reductions in the size of the submarine arms for both the RSwN and the RNoN.
Also, the misalignment between the defence planning and budgetary cycles of the three partners complicated the decision-making process, with each partner requiring parliamentary approval before committing funds. Moreover, in an era of fiscal austerity, and with an increasing emphasis on peace-support operations, defence planners and politicians alike made submarines less of a budget priority.
Norway was first to depart from the programme, taking the decision in 2002 at the end of Project Definition Phase 1. This was driven by a reduction in the size of the RNoN's submarine flotilla that meant there was no longer a requirement for replacement submarines in the timeframe envisaged by the Viking programme.
Denmark and Sweden continued on a bilateral basis, but with projected offtake pared down to three boats and two boats respectively. The two nations funded Project Definition Phase 2, under which Kockums and its principal subcontractor Odense Steel Shipyard were tasked to develop a production plan and detailed costings for the partner governments.
However, the Viking collaboration eventually foundered in 2004 when Denmark announced it was winding down its submarine arm. In its wake, Sweden has moved forward - albeit at a slow pace - with its national A 26 programme, although it is continuing to court international partners (notably Singapore and now Norway).



С уважением, Exeter
От HorNet
К Exeter (19.01.2010 21:07:05)
Дата 20.01.2010 11:13:02

Re: Будущее скандинавских...

>Здравствуйте, уважаемый HorNet!

>Датчане зарезали свой подводный флот дабы найти деньгу для "Абсалонов" и новых фрегатов.

Так это... вроде бы там недорого, в общем-то, судя по интересу грекофф к таким же фрегатам. Ну как бы не вдвое дешевле испано-итальяно-французских вариантов. Неужели пришлось такой ценой решать вопрос?


>Е:
>Вполне себе шведы собираются строить новые ПЛ. По программе NGU проектируется новая ПЛ на основе наработок по проекту А26 и по покойному "Викингу". Просто у шведов бабла на НИОКР не хватает, и они хотят снова зарубежных партнеров под это дело развести. Интерес проявили норвеги (но пока деньги не хотят давать), сингапурцы (неопределенно) и поляки (а у этих и так денег нет).

>Вот Вам из октябрьского "Jane's Navy International" актуально-насущная статейка на тему:





>Nordic neighbours pursue divergent submarine tracks

>With more than 200 years of subsurface operations between them, Norway and Sweden are modernising their submarine fleets and developing new platforms to meet a shift in operational focus, write Jon Rosamond and Richard Scott


.......................................

>However, the Viking collaboration eventually foundered in 2004 when Denmark announced it was winding down its submarine arm. In its wake, Sweden has moved forward - albeit at a slow pace - with its national A 26 programme, although it is continuing to court international partners (notably Singapore and now Norway).



Спасибо! Однако здорово швеццкие либералы пощипали свою же оборонку... ну почти как российские;-))
От Exeter
К HorNet (20.01.2010 11:13:02)
Дата 20.01.2010 13:59:01

Re: Будущее скандинавских...

Здравствуйте, уважаемый HorNet!


>
>>Датчане зарезали свой подводный флот дабы найти деньгу для "Абсалонов" и новых фрегатов.
>
>Так это... вроде бы там недорого, в общем-то, судя по интересу грекофф к таким же фрегатам. Ну как бы не вдвое дешевле испано-итальяно-французских вариантов. Неужели пришлось такой ценой решать вопрос?

Е:
Ну что значит "недорого"? Все датские ПЛ были устаревшие. То есть вставал вопрос, чтоб для сохранения подводных сил необходимо было строить новую серию ПЛ, стоимость которой (если брать за основу тот же "Викинг") была сопоставима со стоимостью серии "Абсалонов" и фрегатов. Две программы сразу финансировать уже не могли. Вот и сделали выбор.



С уважением, Exeter
От HorNet
К Exeter (20.01.2010 13:59:01)
Дата 21.01.2010 01:51:12

Благодарю. Чтобы два раза не вставать,

хотелось бы еще прояснить ситуацию с модернизацией шведских тральцов и финских минзагов в некие "авизошлюпы" для операций в коалициях вне Балтики. Что ставят, что снимают? Делается ли это в ущерб минным возможностям, или нет?
От Exeter
К HorNet (21.01.2010 01:51:12)
Дата 22.01.2010 03:37:14

Re: Благодарю. Чтобы...

Здравствуйте!

>хотелось бы еще прояснить ситуацию с модернизацией шведских тральцов и финских минзагов в некие "авизошлюпы" для операций в коалициях вне Балтики. Что ставят, что снимают? Делается ли это в ущерб минным возможностям, или нет?

Е:
Насчет шведов - ну там модернизация пяти ТЩИМ, помимо замены противоминных систем, первым этапом включала "to enable their participation in the Swedish international rapid reaction force". Как можно понять, это сводится в основном к приспособлению кораблей для действия в тропических водах (кондиционирование, пресная вода и пр.), плюс установка совместимых с НАТОвцами системами связи (в том числе Link 16), а для 40-мм АУ также устанавливается электронно-оптическая СУО Arte 726 (причем эта СУО 70-х гг снимается со списываемых катеров типа Kaparen, хотя и дорабатывается, получая обозначение Arte 726F).
Причем у шведов ввиду сокращений военного бюджета хватило денег только на финансирование модернизации пяти тральцов, а первые два (Landsort и Arholma) будут списаны в 2012 г.

Про фиников смотрите здесь:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A4meenmaa_class_minelayer

Я думаю, их "международная приспособленность" будет в основном в том же ключе, что и у шведов. Добавлю, что на финские МЗ при модернизации установлены также ВПП для легкого вертолета, и по два 40-мм станковых автоматических гранатомета, чтобы отстреливаться от злодеев.


С уважением, Exeter
От HorNet
К Exeter (22.01.2010 03:37:14)
Дата 23.01.2010 11:37:34

Спасибо!

>>Про фиников смотрите здесь:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A4meenmaa_class_minelayer

>Я думаю, их "международная приспособленность" будет в основном в том же ключе, что и у шведов. Добавлю, что на финские МЗ при модернизации установлены также ВПП для легкого вертолета, и по два 40-мм станковых автоматических гранатомета, чтобы отстреливаться от злодеев.


Интересно... а у финников что, есть вертолетные части корабельного базирования? Или это "на всякий случай"?
Вообще удивительно то, что финники при таком развитии судостроения и развивающихся милитаристических настроениях так и не пошли по пути создания больших корветов по типу шведов\датчан и\или патрульных фрегатов с ледовым классом. Может, дело в зимней замерзайке Финнзала?
От Exeter
К HorNet (23.01.2010 11:37:34)
Дата 23.01.2010 14:38:44

ВПП - именно на случай взаимодействия с "партнёрами"


А насчет строительства больших кораблей - у финских ВМС просто бабла на такое нет. Они-то и состав флота в последние годы сократили, куда там о фрегатах мечтать. И потом, датчане могут позволить себе играть в "экспедиционность", им никто реально не угрожает, а финны до сих пор под боком у медведя живут. Так что финскому флоту приходится уделять первостепенное внимание тому, что может пригодиться в реальных боевых действиях с русскими в Финском заливе. Там фрегаты ни к чему.

С уважением, Exeter
От HorNet
К Exeter (23.01.2010 14:38:44)
Дата 23.01.2010 18:22:03

Там НаПЛ могут пригодиться вполне.


По оценкам противолодочников старой ЛенВМБ, на 73% акватории Финнзала применять авиационные противолодочные торпеды бесполезно - слишком велик шанс заблудиться в реверберациях...
А финны как бы не мыслят для себя ПЛ в каком-то обозримом будущем?
От Exeter
К HorNet (23.01.2010 18:22:03)
Дата 23.01.2010 20:09:10

Не мыслят. Дорого и общественность не поймёт


Веяния насчет приобретения пары ПЛ ходили у финнов в девяностые годы, и состоялось даже присоединение к программе "Викинга" в качестве наблюдателя. Но сейчас все умерло и похоже навсегда.

С уважением, Exeter
От tramp
К HorNet (23.01.2010 18:22:03)
Дата 23.01.2010 20:06:01

Re: Там НаПЛ...


>По оценкам противолодочников старой ЛенВМБ, на 73% акватории Финнзала применять авиационные противолодочные торпеды бесполезно - слишком велик шанс заблудиться в реверберациях...
Оценка-то наверное для наших торпед, современные натовские получше будут...


с уважением
От tramp
К Exeter (22.01.2010 03:37:14)
Дата 22.01.2010 08:52:46

Re: Благодарю. Чтобы...

Тогда и я спрошу.. Как там дела у Combat Boat 2010 он же "Stridsbåt NY"? Строить будут и когда?


с уважением
От Exeter
К tramp (22.01.2010 08:52:46)
Дата 22.01.2010 16:06:18

Так программу окончательно аннулировали еще в мае 2009 г

Все по той же причине всеобщих финансовых урезаний, уважаемый tramp. Контракт на постройку прототипа так и не был заключен. Правда, FMV собщала при этом, что формально окончательное решение будет принято при определении дальнейшей судьбы шведских амфибийных сил БО, так что в теории некий шанс на реанимацию проекта в следующем десятилетии типа имеется.

Пока что, по последним данным, решено сократить к 2015 г. единственный оставшийся 1-й амфибийный полк до одного развернутого батальона новой организации ("Батальон-2010"), на вооружении которого будут 100-120 планируемых к модернизации к тому времени CombatBoat 90 (из 174 имеющихся сейчас).


С уважением, Exeter
От tramp
К Exeter (22.01.2010 16:06:18)
Дата 23.01.2010 12:39:58

Спасибо (-)
От Роман Алымов
К HorNet (19.01.2010 17:23:55)
Дата 19.01.2010 19:31:37

А против кого им лодки строить? (-)
От HorNet
К Роман Алымов (19.01.2010 19:31:37)
Дата 19.01.2010 20:31:16

Лучше спросить - для кого?

Экспортный потенциал "Кокумса" - часть экспортного потенциала HDW;-))
Я вот не очень понимаю, почему в отношении немеццких лодок (да и МЕКО-фрегатокорветов) не работает старый принцип рынка вооружений, который гласит: экспортный потенциал железяки, не состоящей на вооружении страны-производителя, в общем ниже, чем у состоящей.
"Кокумс" "придумал" анаэробную ГЭУ и Х-образные рули. Строй он дальше лодки для своих ВМС, он бы придумал и что-нибудь еще, что потом можно было бы хорошо продать...
От Exeter
К HorNet (19.01.2010 20:31:16)
Дата 19.01.2010 21:10:14

Re: Лучше спросить...

Здравствуйте, уважаемый HorNet!

>Я вот не очень понимаю, почему в отношении немеццких лодок (да и МЕКО-фрегатокорветов) не работает старый принцип рынка вооружений, который гласит: экспортный потенциал железяки, не состоящей на вооружении страны-производителя, в общем ниже, чем у состоящей.

Е:
Этот принцип на корабли вообще не распространяется, поскольку корабли на экспорт испокон веку чаще всего строились по специальным проектам под требования заказчика. Здесь скорее работают международная репутация проектанта и строителя. А с этим у германцев все ОК.


С уважением, Exeter