От Андю
К Skvortsov
Дата 26.04.2019 08:16:13
Рубрики 11-19 век; Армия;

Т.е. автор никто и звать его никак. (+)

Здравствуйте,

>Норвежцы в городскую крепость не входили. Заложников только пообещали выдать.

Это не ещё раз, это впервые. Раз. Два: город и городская крепость/замок -- это не одно и тоже. Ещё раз: город сдался и дал заложников. А легитимный король Англии Гаральд пришёл на помощь потерпевшим поражение "северянам", с которыми он был связан ещё и родственными узами, и одержал победу.

И дальше я опять скипнул, как совершенно неотносящееся в обсуждаемой теме. Ещё раз.

Всего хорошего, Андрей.
От Skvortsov
К Андю (26.04.2019 08:16:13)
Дата 26.04.2019 15:43:23

Вы же написали, что даже историком не являетесь. Как Вы можете оценить автора?


>>Норвежцы в городскую крепость не входили. Заложников только пообещали выдать.
>
>Это не ещё раз, это впервые. Раз. Два: город и городская крепость/замок -- это не одно и тоже. Ещё раз: город сдался и дал заложников.
Вы периоды путаете. Викинги весь Йорк обнесли стенами. Им было нужно защитить все население. Замок построили уже при Вильгельме. Ему надо было контролировать горожан.


Ну и кроме процитированного выше "Heimskringla or The Chronicle of the Kings of Norway by Snorri Sturlson (c.1179-1241) Samuel Laing (London, 1844), translator."

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/heim/10harald.htm

есть более свежий перевод

Цитата отсюда:

https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Stamford-Bridge-Holtby-ebook/dp/B07HWQVBN4/ref=sr_1_2?qid=1556280479&refinements=p_27%3AJonathan+Starkey&s=digital-text&sr=1-2&text=Jonathan+Starkey



"Note that English Heritage are using the A.H. Binns 1968 Heimskringla translation.

"The townsfolk decided to send an offer to Harald, yielding themselves and the town to him, and on the Sunday King Harald went with his troop and all the army to York, and had a meeting outside the town, and all the great men agreed to submit to King Harald and gave him hostages, rich men's sons whom Tostig could pick out for the king, because he knew who were the worthiest men in the town. They went back in the evening to the ships with an undisputed success and were contented. It was decided that there should be a meeting in the morning in the town, when King Harald was to appoint governors of the place and give them offices and areas."


MB: Heimskringla says that on Sunday: “It was decided that there should be a meeting in the morning in the town”. Then on Monday: “They were very happy, with no thought of any attack, and when they were getting near the town they saw a great cloud of dust and under it bright shields and shining mail.” We are told that ‘city’ is a better translation; Laing translates as ‘castle’. It clearly refers to York, which is the only city or town or castle in the vicinity."

The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle says that Harold and the English army spent the night before battle at Tadcaster; Heimskringla says they were at York:

"The same evening, after sunset, King Harald Godwinson came from the south to the castle with a numerous army, and rode into the city with the good-will and consent of the people of the castle. All the gates and walls were beset so that the Northmen could receive no intelligence, and the army remained all night in the town."

On the other hand, the passage in Heimskringla would be an odd invention and we think Harold did go in person to York castle on battle-eve. He would have wanted to ensure that there were no Norsemen inside, that his army would be well-received and that the defeated Northumbrian militia would join him. It looks then that most of the Heimskringla passage is sound. Harold did come from the south with a numerous army. They were quite close (nine miles from Tadcaster to York) to the castle. We think Harold did ride into the city and that the city was guarded to prevent intelligence getting out. We cannot explain why Heimskringla says: “the army remained all night in the town”. Perhaps it is just a mistake or perhaps it is trying to say that Harold’s professional army – i.e. his huscarls – stayed in the town all night."







От Андю
К Skvortsov (26.04.2019 15:43:23)
Дата 26.04.2019 18:18:38

Вы -- забавный. :-) (-)
От Skvortsov
К Андю (26.04.2019 18:18:38)
Дата 26.04.2019 18:58:38

Можно вывести девушку из деревни, а вот деревню из девушки никогда - это про Вас (-)
От sas
К Skvortsov (26.04.2019 18:58:38)
Дата 27.04.2019 13:15:09

Re:Кстати, о вечном. А Вы - историк? (-)