От А.Власов
К All
Дата 03.09.2003 16:44:24
Рубрики Локальные конфликты;

Китайско-вьетнамская война '79

Вот закончил читать М.Ильинского "Индокитай - пепел 4-х войн",
ощущение что книга нарезана из газетных статей всяких там правд известий и т.п., но собственно хотелось бы узнать ваше мнение по некоторым пунктикам:
1. Китайские заградотряды: при отступлении от Жаланашколя ими расстреляно 700 бойцов НОАК. Хм, даже больше чем на Даманском в ходе упорных боев.
2. Кол-во погибших китайцев в ходе месячной войны - 60 тыс. человек (каждый десятый). Это похоже на какую-то децимацию времён Рима.

И наконец, быть может кто посоветует какие-либо источники по Китайско-Вьетнамской войне 79 года, хотя официально, вроде, ни одна из сторон войны другой не объявляло
От apple16
К А.Власов (03.09.2003 16:44:24)
Дата 03.09.2003 16:52:11

Любой китайский англоязычный форум завалит вас информацией :)

Например

http://orbat.com/site/data/historical/vietnam/war1979.html

http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/doc/coombspapers/otherarchives/asian-studies-archives/seasia-archives/politics/seasia-security-issues.txt

xttp://artclub.csuhayward.edu/forum/uploads/post-13-19602-VN_Type62.jpg
Chinese Type62 light tank exported to Vietname knock out by the PLA in 79

xttp://artclub.csuhayward.edu/forum/uploads/post-13-1062590371.jpg
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xttp://artclub.csuhayward.edu/forum/uploads/post-13-1062592102.jpg

Если бы они еще и по китайски не писали :)
От А.Власов
К apple16 (03.09.2003 16:52:11)
Дата 04.09.2003 08:16:46

фото более чем знаменитое :-)
От А.Власов
К А.Власов (04.09.2003 08:16:46)
Дата 04.09.2003 08:55:52

Только СТОП!

В пояснении говорится что это китайский танк, экспортированый во вьетнам и подбитый НОАК... Но вроде на броне вьетнамцы (у одного шлем характерный). Да и звезда на танке разве вьетнамская?
От А.Власов
К apple16 (03.09.2003 16:52:11)
Дата 04.09.2003 08:06:30

Спасибо!

Правда эта ссылка почему-то не работает :-(
http://orbat.com/site/data/historical/vietnam/war1979.html

От apple16
К А.Власов (04.09.2003 08:06:30)
Дата 04.09.2003 11:40:31

Отсохла видимо

такое бывает

Вот еще ссылка
http://www.china-defense.com/history/sino-vn_1/sino-vn_1-1.html

Для дальнейшего прогресса рекомендую зарегестрироваться
на одном из многочисленных китайских англоязычных форумов и читать (задавая вопросы) там.
Тов. Седой (он же Grey) наковырял там изрядно
китайской информации по Доманскому
(кстати может кому надо продублировать?)
Мой форум -
http://artclub.csuhayward.edu/forum

Немного картинок по поводу войны 1984 года
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кусок текста по войне 1984 года
it is called Laoshan campaign in China.

It is the first large scale deployment of Type81 rifle. In addition, PLA fielded the US Arty radar 704 with great results, and first ever large deployment of Special force, including the 38th Group Army Special Force Dedui (size unknow)



PLA cmdr who took part in the fighting of 84 to 88. (list from DOR)

Zhang Wannian (41st and / or 43rd Divisions),

Chi Haotian (PLA Dep Chief of Staff & General Staff Pol Dept Dir, 11/77/85 ),

Fu Quanyou (1st Army Division; 1984 captured Mount Laoshan; "recovered" Zheyin Mountain stronghold as head of 1st Army Corps, 1984, 1st army chief of staff 1981/83, division cmdr 1978/80,

Zhang Zhixiu (served with Fu Quanyou; former Kunming MR Commander),

He Qizong (Nanjing MR now; former PLA Dep Chief of Staff 4/85 11/92, Army cmdr 1984/85, Army Dep Cmdr 1983/84, Division Cmdr 1983, Div Chief of Staff 1982/83 PLA Military Acad grad 1982, Rgmt Cmdr 1979/80);

Qian Guoliang (now Jinan MR Cmdr; 1987-88 led 27th Group Army from Hebei to Yunnan for Vietnam border duty; Wu Shuangzhan served under Qian Guoliang;

Tao Bojun (Guangzhou MR);

Xiong Ziren (now HKSAR Garrison Cmdr ?was Division Deputy PC (1/83-), Vietnam vet (79) cited for meritorious service for publicising heros Peng Yunhuo and Ms Lan Yanchun. Guangzhou MR political cadre at the time);

Liu Yaji (last seen commanding 14th Group Army, Chengdu MR),

Li Xinliang, Guangdong MR Dep Cmdr (6/89 1/94), Guangxi MD Cmdr (11/85-6/89), MD CCP Sec抷 (11/85-?), Vietnam Vet (79)

Chen Bingde (Now Nanjing MR Cmdr),

Possibily: Yang Jianhua, (Yang Shangkun抯 nephew; 27th Army Cmdr)


Units that took part

1984 and afterward
The Two Mountain Engagement Battle
Attack phase
14th Army's 40th Division (Lao shan)
41st Division's 122nd Regiment (Hu Dong Shan)
11th Army's 31st Division (Jer Yan Shan)
Defense phase
11th Army
15th Army
15th Border Defense Regiment
1st Army (June 1984 to June 1985)
20th Army (1984-85)
54th Army (1984-85)
67th Army (1984-85)
21th Army (1986-May 87)
47th Army (1986-May 87)
27th Army (Fall 1986 to Summer 1988)
13th Army (1988 to Nov 1989) (











In a nutshell, (I am leaving politic off this)

1. It was a continuation of the 79 crash, war or whatever you wish to call it.

2. cross boarder attacks were conducted by both sides.

3. by 1984, PLA decide to end this and take the initiative by sending a division size party to the Laoshan area and its surrending hills (Lao shan directly translate as Old mountain in Chinese) Laoshan is the heighest peak in that region (3,000 meters), and an important road junction. They encounter little resistence (battalion lvl)

4. PLA dig in, control the high ground.

5. Vietnamese force counter attacked.

7. a large scale battle took place (6+ Vietnamese regts took part in engagement around the main peak.) smaller battles took place in the surrending hills. surrending hills exchanged hands number of times.

6. they failed to dislog the dig in PLA.

7. Small scale exchanges continue (coy level)

8. PLA rotate troops in and out from 1985 and to given them real combet experience. a require assignment for most PLA officers.

9. Peace treaty sign in 88 or 89, PLA withdraw from Laoshen

http://www.china-defense.com/history/laoshan/laoshan_1.html

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От А.Власов
К apple16 (04.09.2003 11:40:31)
Дата 04.09.2003 12:34:35

Уже разобрался :-)

>такое бывает

www.orbat.com/site/history/historical/vietnam/war1979.html

за доп.инфу тоже СПАСИБО!