От Никита
К Константин Дегтярев
Дата 24.08.2004 17:53:35
Рубрики 11-19 век;

Повторные атаки во фланг...

>"Сейчас черкесы живут недалеко от Чечни и Турции" - ценное пояснение :)))

Это не для русских писалось:) Вам очень интересна география населения племен Буркина Фасо?


В Вашей ссылки написано много всякой ерунды про пики и их ужасность на уровне разборок юных реконструкторов,

Будьте, пожалуйста, конкретны в критике. Особой ерунды я там не приметил. Может, читал не внимательно? Что Вам дало основание для эпитетов типа "юная реконструкция"?



но как именно проводилась атака - непонятно. Скорее всего, уланы просто сумели выиграть фланги.

Неоднокатно?


>Я же писал, еще раз повторю, про ФРОНТАЛЬНУЮ атаку.

Я не верю в повторную атаку во фланг. Плохо это себе представляю.

С уважением,
Никита
От Никита
К Никита (24.08.2004 17:53:35)
Дата 24.08.2004 18:08:56

Вот более подробные описания с того же сайта

Firstly Michal Sokolnicki sent the 1er Chasseur-a-Cheval Regiment (armed with lances, actually only few had carbines) against troops attackin Mark-Kleeberg, Russian 14th Infantry Division and two Prussian batteries. The chasseurs broke one infantry square in the instant and took 600 prisoners. The chasseurs attempted to reform but were attacked from the rear by entire Russian cuirassier brigade led by GM Levashov. The chasseurs fired few shots and fled with the heavies hot on their heels. Sokolnicki immediately unleashed against the pursuers his 3rd Uhlan Regiment. The uhlans struck the cuirassiers "in both flanks" and threw them back. The heavies fled south and were rescued by the counter-attacking Russian 'Lubny' Hussar Regiment. The hussars and part of the cuirassiers halted, fought and pushed the uhlans back.

One company of Polish grenadiers marched forward, they were sent in support for the horsemen. Unfortunately the Russian cuirassiers saw them, surrounded and killed to the last man ! The Russians gave no querters. Against Polish cavalry also advanced the Prussian 'Neumark' dragoons and 'Silesian' uhlans but before they reached the area of cavalry fight, the Polish 8th Uhlan Regiment avenged their killed comrades by routing the Russian cuirassiers and hussars. The 8th was joined by the 6th Uhlan Regiment and charged against Allies cavalry. The 800 horsemen routed the reformed cuirassier brigade and threw them back on hussars. Within next one-two hours Sokolnicki's lads will execute seven charges halting any advance of the enemy on this area.



Sokolnicki's cavalry fought until Austrian Cuirassier Corps crossed the Pleisse River by Gautzsch and galloped toward the Auenhain Farm and the meadows nearby. General Nostitz brought six regiments of fresh, armored and mounted on big horses troops. It was far too much for the tired Poles, although Napoleon supported them with regiment of his guard dragoons (Empress Dragoons) led by the brave Letort. The Poles and the guardsmen executed several charges against the masses of cuirassiers, and even reached as far as Crobern (!) but soon were pushed back.
The meadows were covered with killed and wounded men and horses.
Austrian 'Albert' Cuirassier Regiment and 'Lothringen' Cuirassier Regiment rushed against 3rd Uhlan which was supported by French artillery. The cuirassiers wore voluminous greatcoats covering their armor and the uhlans mistook them for dragoons. The surprised uhlans fled until the Polish 1st Chasseur and French dragoons of Old Guard counterattacked and pushed back the Austrians. The victory did not last long and the chaseurs and guardsmen - after a ferocious melee - were pushed back by two fresh regiments of cuirassiers ('Erzherzog Franz' and 'Kronprinz ferdinand').
The chasseurs retreated toward Sokolnicki's positions and the guardsmen behind Wachau.
От Константин Дегтярев
К Никита (24.08.2004 18:08:56)
Дата 24.08.2004 18:21:06

Ага, все правильно.

"The uhlans struck the cuirassiers "in both flanks" and threw them back. The heavies fled south and were rescued by the counter-attacking Russian 'Lubny' Hussar Regiment. The hussars and part of the cuirassiers halted, fought and pushed the uhlans back."

Уланы ударили по кирасирам "с обоих флангов". Потом были опрокинуты лубенскими гусарами из 2-й линии. Классика.

"the Polish 8th Uhlan Regiment avenged their killed comrades by routing the Russian cuirassiers and hussars. The 8th was joined by the 6th Uhlan Regiment and charged against Allies cavalry. The 800 horsemen routed the reformed cuirassier brigade and threw them back on hussars."

Как проводилась эта атака, не сказано, но явно ударили по рассыпавшейся для преследования коннице, потерявшей строй.


"The Poles and the guardsmen executed several charges against the masses of cuirassiers, and even reached as far as Crobern (!) but soon were pushed back."

Произвели несколько атак против массы кирасиро и даже достигли Кроберна, но вскоре были выбиты обратно. О результате их атак, кстати, не сообщается, а достич нас. пункта лни могли и в результате маневра.

"Austrian 'Albert' Cuirassier Regiment and 'Lothringen' Cuirassier Regiment rushed against 3rd Uhlan which was supported by French artillery. The cuirassiers wore voluminous greatcoats covering their armor and the uhlans mistook them for dragoons. The surprised uhlans fled until the Polish 1st Chasseur and French dragoons of Old Guard counterattacked and pushed back the Austrians."

Тоже классика. Фронтальной атакой кирасиры смяли улан (кто бы сомневался), но были конратакованы (вероятно, во фланги, ибо перед фронтом гнали улан) 2-й линией.

Итак, никаких свидетельств способности улан выдержать фронтальную атаку кирасир.

Константин Дегтярев, http://fershal.narod.ru
От Никита
К Константин Дегтярев (24.08.2004 18:21:06)
Дата 25.08.2004 11:11:14

Re: Ага, все...

>"the Polish 8th Uhlan Regiment avenged their killed comrades by routing the Russian cuirassiers and hussars. The 8th was joined by the 6th Uhlan Regiment and charged against Allies cavalry. The 800 horsemen routed the reformed cuirassier brigade and threw them back on hussars."

>Как проводилась эта атака, не сказано, но явно ударили по рассыпавшейся для преследования коннице, потерявшей строй.

Вы пропустили слово "reformed". Это говорит об обратном.

В целом уланы очень долго оспаривали позиции в бою с кирасирами. Это факт, который делает первоначальное утверждение не столь однозначным. Конница это всегда маневр.

С уважением,
Никита