От Илья Литсиос
К Chestnut
Дата 29.10.2004 19:24:40
Рубрики 11-19 век;

Re: Инкерман

>но может быть из-за тумана (противники слишком поздно обнаружили друг друга и не успели испугаться) -- во всяком случае, британцы получали ранения русскими штыками

Под Инкерманом из-за плохой видимости и пересечённой местности было несколько внезапных столкновений, когда противники обнаруживали друг друга лишь в последний момент. Кроме того, бой вёлся вокруг редутов, а в укреплениях рукопашный бой пехоты более вероятен. Насколько я помню, там был также эпизод, когда отрезанная группа англичан пробилась штыками сквозь русскую колонну, солдаты которой были настолько стиснуты, что не могли отбиваться.
От Kosta
К Илья Литсиос (29.10.2004 19:24:40)
Дата 31.10.2004 15:27:06

Re: Инкерман


>Насколько я помню, там был также эпизод, когда отрезанная группа англичан пробилась штыками сквозь русскую колонну, солдаты которой были настолько стиснуты, что не могли отбиваться.

Гм, что то верится с трудом, что могли достигаться такие "плотности" построения
От Илья Литсиос
К Kosta (31.10.2004 15:27:06)
Дата 31.10.2004 20:05:27

Re: Инкерман

>Гм, что то верится с трудом, что могли достигаться такие "плотности" построения

В колонне из-за беспорядка во время боя такое вполне возможно.
От Kosta
К Илья Литсиос (31.10.2004 20:05:27)
Дата 01.11.2004 13:50:41

Re: Инкерман

>>Гм, что то верится с трудом, что могли достигаться такие "плотности" построения
>
>В колонне из-за беспорядка во время боя такое вполне возможно.

И англичане стали бы прорываться через такую плотную колонну? Гм-гм. А о каком эпизоде вообще идет речь - не об атаке ли батальонной колонны Якутского полка во фланг?
От Илья Литсиос
К Kosta (01.11.2004 13:50:41)
Дата 01.11.2004 15:58:05

Re: Инкерман

Вот этот эпизод (я ошибся, когда говорил, что группа англичан была отрезана, а в остальном всё так и есть):
As the Russian main body came up from the ravine, the 49th and 68th in skirmishing role remained close enough in contact to prevent the British guns firing. Several French officers worked forward to them to ask them to break contact By the time they managed to do so, withdrawing from their Barrier positions to join the 77th behind the 7th Leger, the Russians were getting close to the Frenchmen. They were clearly uncomfortable to suddenly find themselves in the van of the defence although well supported by the Zouave detachment on their left,and the 57th on their right. 7th Leger had taken heavy casualties in repulsing the Vanguard, and now looking at this seemingly irresistible force which kept coming on in spite of the rapid fire they kept pumping into it and the gaps torn by shot and shell, they looked to be disinclined to go forward. It was a tense moment. The persuasive efforts of their officers didn't seem to be getting anywhere when somebody thought of bringing their Drums and Bugles to the front and sounding the 'Pas de Charge'. Simultaneously Colonel Daubeney and about 30 soldiers from the 55th appeared from nowhere and went baldheaded for the Russian columns.

That did it. Away went the 7th Leger and Pennefathers men, closing with the leading Russian ranks. Daubeney flung himself into the right flank of the mass like a subway commuter onto a rushhour train. In similar vein, he was unable to move his arms in the densely packed ranks, and found himself face to face with a Russian officer similarly pinioned. The two smiled at each other in recognition of their mutual predicament! A huge colour sergeant behind the Colonel managed to lever enough space for himself to swing his rifle, and they both made it through to the other side with about half their force. The front ranks thought they were being attacked from behind, faltered and stopped. Pennefather threw in his very last available troops - suddenly the column was going backwards, and as it was steeply downhill,the rearward momentum back into the Quarry Ravine quickly increased. Occasionally through the fearful fracas triumphant bellowed 'Hurrahs' could be heard which sounded as if they might come from Pennefather himself - certainly he was in the thick of it.
От Kosta
К Илья Литсиос (01.11.2004 15:58:05)
Дата 02.11.2004 14:57:37

Re: Инкерман

Да, интересно. Про атаку Дабиньи на якутцев я слыхал, но чтоб человек рукой не мог пошевельнуть, а на него в этом время пялился русский офицер в таком же положении... Прямо кино. Притом, непонятно, что могло так сильно "сжать" якутцев. У Кинглека на карте, например, никакого особенного "дефиле" не просматривается. И справа и слева от колонны вполне себе орудуют стрелковые группы.


>Вот этот эпизод (я ошибся, когда говорил, что группа англичан была отрезана, а в остальном всё так и есть):
>As the Russian main body came up from the ravine, the 49th and 68th in skirmishing role remained close enough in contact to prevent the British guns firing. Several French officers worked forward to them to ask them to break contact By the time they managed to do so, withdrawing from their Barrier positions to join the 77th behind the 7th Leger, the Russians were getting close to the Frenchmen. They were clearly uncomfortable to suddenly find themselves in the van of the defence although well supported by the Zouave detachment on their left,and the 57th on their right. 7th Leger had taken heavy casualties in repulsing the Vanguard, and now looking at this seemingly irresistible force which kept coming on in spite of the rapid fire they kept pumping into it and the gaps torn by shot and shell, they looked to be disinclined to go forward. It was a tense moment. The persuasive efforts of their officers didn't seem to be getting anywhere when somebody thought of bringing their Drums and Bugles to the front and sounding the 'Pas de Charge'. Simultaneously Colonel Daubeney and about 30 soldiers from the 55th appeared from nowhere and went baldheaded for the Russian columns.

>That did it. Away went the 7th Leger and Pennefathers men, closing with the leading Russian ranks. Daubeney flung himself into the right flank of the mass like a subway commuter onto a rushhour train. In similar vein, he was unable to move his arms in the densely packed ranks, and found himself face to face with a Russian officer similarly pinioned. The two smiled at each other in recognition of their mutual predicament! A huge colour sergeant behind the Colonel managed to lever enough space for himself to swing his rifle, and they both made it through to the other side with about half their force. The front ranks thought they were being attacked from behind, faltered and stopped. Pennefather threw in his very last available troops - suddenly the column was going backwards, and as it was steeply downhill,the rearward momentum back into the Quarry Ravine quickly increased. Occasionally through the fearful fracas triumphant bellowed 'Hurrahs' could be heard which sounded as if they might come from Pennefather himself - certainly he was in the thick of it.
От Илья Литсиос
К Kosta (02.11.2004 14:57:37)
Дата 02.11.2004 15:42:20

Re: Инкерман

Как я писал, случалось так, что колонны в бою скучивались до крайнего предела, вне зависимости от свободного пространства вокруг них. Это, наверное, психологическая реакция на опасность, желание укрыться за товарищами( может быть неосознанное), да и просто беспорядок возникающий при движении по неровной местности.