От Said Aminov
К В. Кашин
Дата 01.02.2005 12:43:47
Рубрики Локальные конфликты;

А англичане считают, что мог быть ПЗРК "Стингер"

Интересное мнение британской газеты о том, что Геркулес был сбит "Стингером"

DID THEY USE A US MISSILE? Feb 1 2005


BRITS BLOWN FROM SKY: Terror groups boast: We downed plane and killed 10

By Don Mackay, Richard Smith and Kevin Toolis


A US-made Stinger missile fired by Iraqi insurgents was feared last night to have downed the RAF Hercules in which 10 British servicemen were killed.

Arab TV station al-Jazeera yesterday broadcast claimed footage of Sunday's tragedy 25 miles north of Baghdad.

It showed a finger pressing a button before a missile soars into the sky. The film then cuts to what was said to be wreckage of the plane blazing in a palm grove.

Other shots purported to show the Hercules's twisted engine and torn fuselage.

Two terror groups, the little known 1920 Revolution Brigades and Ansar al-Islam, have claimed responsibility for the attack which came as Iraq went to the polls.

Al-Islam gloated on an Islamic website yesterday: "Thanks be to God, the plane was downed and a huge fire and black clouds of smoke were seen rising from the crash."

Missing Stingers originally given by the CIA to mujahedeen fighting Russia in the 80s Afghan war are feared to have found their way into the hands of fundamentalist fanatics.

Parliamentary defence advisor Air Vice Marshall Tony Mason said: "On the face of it we have a fully serviceable aircraft and an extremely competent crew. The crash site covers a wide area which suggests impact in the air rather than on the ground."

Yesterday Defence Minister Geoff Hoon confirmed that nine RAF personnel and one Army signals expert died when the C-130 transport plane crashed on a run from Baghdad to Balad 40 miles away.

He said: "UK and US forces have secured the crash site, and are now recovering the bodies and attempting to ascertain the cause. We're aware of reports the aircraft may have been shot down. But we can't come to conclusions until the inquiry is complete."

At first it was thought the giant aircraft, which has an exemplary safety record, was carrying SAS troops. Men from 264 signal squadron are attached to the special forces and wear the same sandy beret.

THE RAF Regiment, the air force's ground troops, are also known to have been attached to the SAS in the past. The Defence Ministry said: "We do not comment on special forces."

Yesterday flags flew at half mast at British camps in Iraq. Bouquets and tribute messages were laid by villagers outside the plane's base at RAF Lyneham, Wilts.

Weighing just 20lbs, a hand-held Stinger is one of America's most potent ground-to-air weapons. Fired from the shoulder, it flies at 1,500mph and can down any plane flying below 11,000ft from five miles away.

It can also be fired at an aerial target from a tripod-mounted launch platform. One expert said: "If you can see the shape of an aircraft in the sky, then the Stinger can shoot it down."

Hundreds of the missiles went missing during the mujahedeen war against Russia. In 1997, the CIA offered Taliban leader Mullah Omar $8million to buy back 53 of the weapons. He turned them down.

Ansar al-Islam, whose men fought alongside Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan, could have up to 400 of the missiles.

The group is believed to have close links with terror chief Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, whose rebels in Iraq beheaded Briton Ken Bigley.

Al-Islam claimed to have used an anti-tank missile to attack the Hercules. But aviation expert Damian Kemp, of highly-regarded Jane's Defence Weekly, said: "It would be a tricky operation but not impossible.

"If it was easy to do so they would have done it before. There'd have to be luck involved."

A heat-seeking missile like a Stinger was far more probable. It is also possible that the plane crashed for unknown technical reasons.

The tragedy was the biggest single loss of British forces' lives in Iraq. Foreign Secretary Jack Straw told the House of Commons: "The House will join me in sending our deepest condolences and sympathy to the families of these brave men and to their comrades.

"Yesterday's elections in Iraq demonstrate the vital importance of what those and thousands of other British servicemen and women, have been helping to achieve in Iraq."

The red and blue flag of the First Battalion of Welsh Guards was flying at half mast at Camp Abu Naji, near the flashpoint town of Al Amarah yesterday. The Welsh Guards Battle Group's commanding officer Lieutenant Colonel Ben Bathhurst said: "It always hits us hard when we hear of British casualties." A pilot at the camp added: "Most of the RAF guys, and the troops based here, will have met the crew of the Hercules. "

At Lyneham, one message on a floral tribute left outside the base read: "Our deepest thoughts are with you from Lyneham and beyond. God bless."

North Wiltshire MP James Gray, a former soldier, said: "These servicemen died helping to bring democracy to Iraq."

PARISH councillor Jenny Jardine said: "Our hearts bleed for the families involved. The whole village will share in the sorrow. It's very much one community here - the base and the village."

Fifty Hercules, the workhorses of the RAF transport fleet, are based at Lyneham. The plane can carry up to 92 ground troops, 64 paratroops, 74 stretcher cases or vehicles and freight weighing up to 20 tons. It is also the favoured aircraft of special forces.

Troops in Iraq's most remote military outpost at Al Khala 130 miles south of Baghdad are preparing to leave after a 92 per cent election turnout, writes Chris Hughes.

Yesterday 70 men of the Queen's Dragoon Guards were pulling out of their forward position. Commander Major Jasper de Quincey Adams said: "We hope to go home soon."

It means the most volatile area of the British controlled south - which includes Mujar Al-Kabir where six military police were killed in June 2003 - has been temporarily calmed.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_objectid=15139008&method=full&siteid=50143&headline=did-they-use-a-us-missile--name_page.html
От Хорёк
К Said Aminov (01.02.2005 12:43:47)
Дата 01.02.2005 16:45:14

Re: А англичане...

Так вопрос у нас дистанционный пуск носимых ПЗРК (соответсвенно и их самонаведение - хотя бы поворот вокруг оси) предусмотрены?
ракеты стартовали под углом на видео (мину я так до кучи привёл, от неё во всяком случае механизм поворота можно задействовать)

Или это как Вы указываете только стингерам система присуща?
или местные арабские умельцы соорудили?
От А.Никольский
К Said Aminov (01.02.2005 12:43:47)
Дата 01.02.2005 12:56:07

А, так ероплан оказывается спецназ британский вез

я правильно это понял? Интересно.

>At first it was thought the giant aircraft, which has an exemplary safety record, was carrying SAS troops. Men from 264 signal squadron are attached to the special forces and wear the same sandy beret.
С уважением, А.Никольский
От Волк
К А.Никольский (01.02.2005 12:56:07)
Дата 01.02.2005 14:22:23

Re: А, так...

>я правильно это понял? Интересно.

аж целых четырех спецназовцев? Очень толстые должно быть были ребята, что их целый С-130 тащил.

http://www.volk59.narod.ru
От Гриша
К Волк (01.02.2005 14:22:23)
Дата 01.02.2005 20:03:43

Re: А, так...

>>я правильно это понял? Интересно.
>
>аж целых четырех спецназовцев? Очень толстые должно быть были ребята, что их целый С-130 тащил.

Не факт что рейс был для них специально. Везли какой то груз, заодно и 4 солдат каких нибудь которым надо было в Багдад. Вполне официально.
От 13
К Волк (01.02.2005 14:22:23)
Дата 01.02.2005 14:35:34

Re: А, так...

>>я правильно это понял? Интересно.
>
>аж целых четырех спецназовцев? Очень толстые должно быть были ребята, что их целый С-130 тащил.

Они могли, что то (объемное и (или) тяжелое) сопровождать ...
От Волк
К 13 (01.02.2005 14:35:34)
Дата 01.02.2005 15:33:54

лочично

>>аж целых четырех спецназовцев? Очень толстые должно быть были ребята, что их целый С-130 тащил.
>
>Они могли, что то (объемное и (или) тяжелое) сопровождать ...

Для чего предназначен С-130 - или уж для перевозки нескольких десятков вояк с вооружением и снаряжением, или для перевозки грузов.

Типа боеприпасов. Или продовольствия. Или медикаментов. Нескольких десятков вояк в самолете не было. Значит - везли груз. На хрена при этом четыре спецназовца? Не проще ли - что был сменный экипаж?

Среди 10 погибших - 9 из ВВС и один армейский связист. САС действительно относятся к ВВС, но что им было делать на этом борту?

http://www.volk59.narod.ru