От Chestnut
К Евгений Путилов
Дата 18.05.2005 11:22:30
Рубрики WWI; Политек;

Re: ??? впервые...

Восстание армян в Турецкой Армении во время ПМВ, в том же 1915 году. Выселение армян из прифронтовой полосы было ответом.

In hoc signo vinces
От Аркан
К Chestnut (18.05.2005 11:22:30)
Дата 18.05.2005 13:21:02

"Выселение", слово то какое нашли

>Восстание армян в Турецкой Армении во время ПМВ, в том же 1915 году. Выселение армян из прифронтовой полосы было ответом.

Извините, а много ли армяне на бузили? Сколько дивизий пришлось снять с фронта? Как то не слышал про жестокие бои.... ТО ли дело греки понтийские в 1920-х, их партизанские отряды даже поддерживал греческий флот. Вы их не путаете случайно?
От Евгений Пинак
К Аркан (18.05.2005 13:21:02)
Дата 19.05.2005 12:10:04

Re: "Выселение", слово...

>>Восстание армян в Турецкой Армении во время ПМВ, в том же 1915 году. Выселение армян из прифронтовой полосы было ответом.
>
>Извините, а много ли армяне на бузили? Сколько дивизий пришлось снять с фронта? Как то не слышал про жестокие бои....
Они "бузили" во фронтовой полосе: Ван отбивали 2(?) дивизии, Муш - 1. А всего на фронте было 11 дивизий, из них в том районе - ок. 7. Но самое главное, что на фронт были отправлены многие батальоны жандармерии из Зап.Армении - т.е. турки боялись не того, что уже случилось, а возможного массового востания в тылу.

С уважением,
Евгений Пинак
От Аркан
К Евгений Пинак (19.05.2005 12:10:04)
Дата 19.05.2005 12:43:44

Иными словами была "превентивная" резня. Иногда жалею, что мы не турки:) (-)
От Chestnut
К Аркан (18.05.2005 13:21:02)
Дата 18.05.2005 16:32:47

Привожу отрывки из "Британники" по сабжу

During this campaign the Armenians had created disturbances behind the Turkish lines in support of the Russians and had threatened the already arduous Turkish communications. The Turkish government on June 11, 1915, decided to deport the Armenians. In the process of deportation, the Turkish authorities committed atrocities on a vast scale: Armenian deaths have been estimated at some 600,000. Subsequently, the Armenians perpetrated similar atrocities against the Turkish population of the Armenian country, but perforce on a smaller scale.

Armenian massacres
Statistics are disputed regarding the Armenian population in Ottoman Anatolia at the outbreak of World War I and the number of Armenians killed during deportation. The most disparate numbers have been promulgated by Turkish and Armenian sources; scholars agree that propaganda from both sides has greatly confounded the issue.
No systematic census was taken in Turkey before 1927, although conflicting population statistics were variously reported by the Ottoman government, religious institutions such as the Armenian Patriarchate, and assorted European observers. In 1896 the Ottoman government recorded 1,144,000 Armenians out of a total Anatolian population of 13,241,000. In an examination of government statistics collected shortly before World War I, Justin McCarthy estimates that some 1,500,000 Armenians lived in Ottoman Anatolia in 1912 out of approximately 17,500,000 inhabitants. Various scholars cite the Armenian Patriarchate, which recorded from 1,845,000 to 2,100,000 Armenians in Anatolia prior to 1915. Other estimates range from as low as 1,000,000 to more than 3,500,000. Questions have been raised about the reliability of some local data; therefore, some preference has been given to data collected by European observers. One of the more renowned compilers of Western research, reports, and available data was Arnold J. Toynbee, who served during the war as an intelligence officer for the British Foreign Office. Toynbee calculated that some 1,800,000 Armenians had lived in Anatolia prior to the war. Taking into account the reports of Toynbee and other aforementioned sources, Britannica has taken the figure of 1,750,000 as a reasonable representation of the Armenian population in Anatolia prior to 1915.
Also problematic are reports regarding the number of Armenians who died during deportation (1915-16). Estimates range widely--from 200,000 claimed by some Turkish sources to 2,000,000 claimed by some Armenians--although most scholars agree that the lack of death records makes a final determination impossible. The Turkish government repeats Talat Pasa's original claim that some 300,000 Armenians had died in deportation. As with the problem of the aforementioned population statistics, the subjectivity of some sources has caused greater value to be placed on the reports of European observers. Toynbee judges that some 600,000 Armenians died or were massacred during deportation, possibly 600,000 more survived in exile, and another 600,000 either escaped or went into hiding. By independent calculation, McCarthy has arrived at the same number of deaths, and many historians either cite Toynbee directly or provide similar estimates.

Most histories of Armenia or Turkey make note of the Armenian massacres that occurred during World War I. Detailed treatments are given in the following works:Brief discussions or related data are given in numerous sources, such as those listed below:
GERARD CHALIAND and YVES TERNON, The Armenians: From Genocide to Resistance (1983; originally published in French, 1980).KAMURAN GÜRÜN, The Armenian File: The Myth of Innocence Exposed (1985).JUSTIN McCARTHY, Muslims and Minorities: The Population of Ottoman Anatolia and the End of the Empire (1983).THE PERMANENT PEOPLE'S TRIBUNAL, A Crime of Silence, ed. by GERARD LIBARIDIAN, trans. from French (1985); includes “British Sources on the Armenian Massacres, 1915-1916” by Christopher J. Walker, “German Eyewitness Reports of the Genocide of the Armenians, 1915-1916” by T. Hofmann, “Report on the Genocide of the Armenians of the Ottoman Empire, 1915-1916” by Yves Ternon, and “The Turkish Argument: The Armenian Issue in Nine Questions and Answers” by the Foreign Policy Institute, Ankara.ARNOLD J. TOYNBEE (ed.), The Treatment of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire, 1915-16 (1916).YVES TERNON, The Armenians: History of a Genocide, 2nd ed. (1990; originally published in French, 1977).CHRISTOPHER J. WALKER, Armenia: The Survival of a Nation (1980).VINCENT HENRY PENALVER CAILLARD, “Turkey,” The Encyclopædia Britannica, 11th ed., vol. 27 (1911), p. 426.GLENN E. CURTIS (ed.), Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia: Country Studies (1995), pp. 14-15, 35.CAGLAR KEYDER, “The Political Economy of Turkish Democracy,” in PIRVIN C. SCHICK and ERTUGRUL AHMET TONAK (eds.), Turkey in Transition (1987), p. 31.LORD KINROSS (PATRICK BALFOUR, BARON KINROSS), The Ottoman Centuries (1977), pp. 554, 606.ANAT KURZ and ARIEL MERARI, ASALA--Irrational Terror or Political Tool (1985), pp. 11, 113.DAVID MARSHALL LANG, Armenia: Cradle of Civilization, 2nd ed., corrected (1978), p. 289.HARRIS M. LENTZ, III, Assassinations and Executions (1988), p. 45.BERNARD LEWIS, The Emergence of Modern Turkey, 2nd ed. (1968), p. 356.PAUL M. PITMAN, III (ed.), Turkey: A Country Study, 4th ed. (1988), pp. 37, 41.MINORITY RIGHTS GROUP (ed.), World Directory of Minorities (1990), p. 179.M. PHILIPS PRICE, A History of Turkey (1956), pp. 90-91.STANFORD SHAW and EZEL KURAL SHAW, History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey, vol. 2 (1977), p. 316.PETER YOUNG (ed.), The Marshall Cavendish Illustrated Encyclopedia of World War I, vol. 5 (1984), pp. 1322-23.ERIK J. ZÜRCHER, Turkey: A Modern History (1993), pp. 86-89, 119-121.
Copyright © 1994-2002 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.
In hoc signo vinces
От Аркан
К Chestnut (18.05.2005 16:32:47)
Дата 18.05.2005 18:04:44

Беспорядки это не восстание. У турок руки чесались, остальное опровдание зверств (-)